Curse

Two April Mornings · Dec 02, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Even though I got wiped after 4 hrs in the city with an amazing group, I agree with Vahn Roi. Don't nerf DoA, builds will emerge soon. We had success with a very good balanced group. Pretty much anything will work if you are good enough, which appears to be the problem. Its hard, but if you are good with a good group, I can see it being doable in the near future. Urgoz and the Deep were this difficult in the first few days as well, so don't complain too much.

Nine Soul · Dec 02, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Well, I'm gonna break in and say this IS pretty retarded. Not that I mind the difficulty, I had a PUG this morning that cleared the first 6 groups in the City part with only one casualty. Difficulty = not an issue.

What IS retarded is the fact that nothing seems to work with any consistency. That PUG used a Warrior to tank, with a Bonder on him 24/7. 2 healers + that 1 bonder. GC, Winter, MoF. 2 Eles. Ok, so he tanks, Eles burn the crap outta them - gg.

Now, with a guild group, our guy was running an Obs Flesh tank. Half the time the mobs entirely ignored him and everybody else and went straight for the GC and Winter spirits (which are lvl whatever, I was running WS at 12). Result = spirits down, GG.

vergerefosh · Dec 02, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Builds tend to discriminate. I've been standing around trying to get in, and no-ones paid any attention. Just becoming elitist, with everyone wanting higher ranking LB's, or B/P's, SF Ele's etc

Harder for more casual players who aren't one of those classes, or who don't have an incredibly large variety of skills which enable them to play loads of different builds

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

How would you do that? You need 16 Wilderness Survival and QZ to keep Serpent's Quickness on non-stop, which you'll need non-stop to keep Obsidian Flesh up.

There is the little mistake. You only need the effect of Serpent's Quickness when you're casting a spell.
As for the math at 16 Earth Magic and 9 Wilderness Survival.

OF - 21 seconds Duration (~25 seconds with Ench Mod) - Recharge 30 seconds(~23 under SQ)
SQ - 24 seconds Duration - Recharge 45 seconds

So as you can see, the OF recharge is slightly lower than the duration of SQ. So this basically means you go in, activate Serpent's Suickness and Obsidian Flesh (in this order). As soon as Obsidian Flesh runs out, immediately recast it (SQ is still active). After another second though, SQ will run out. No problem though, your Obsidian Flesh will last for another 25 seconds but SQ has only a 20 second recharge left. Yep, by the time you could cast OF again, SQ is ready to use again.

Feurin Longcastle · Dec 02, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

It's evident that there is a divide in opinion as to whether the difficulty should be toned down. Those that can do it wish for it to stay as it is, and those that can't wish for it to be changed.

So who should Anet cater to?

It's a harder question than one might think. There are considerably more average or inexperienced players than there are those of the calibre needed to handle DoA. Thus this update does nothing for those that can't handle the difficulty. However, those that can complete it are likely those most devoted to GW, those that were probably here a year and a half ago during the beta season. An easier mission update would have done nothing for them.

Personally, I'd like it if both parties could be satisfied somehow, but these are seemingly contradictory scenarios. If one party had to be favoured over the other, which would it be? For this, I'll use an analogy I saw on some other MMO by a dev, regarding as to whether unique weapons, that is, only 1 copy exists in the entire game, should be incorporated. He stated that such a choice would make 1 player happy, no more, no less. If two such copies existed, then 2 people would benefit, maybe a few more if it exchanged hands for large sums of money. The more copies of this item that were added, the more players that could feasibly hope to have one, and thus enjoy it. At some point there would be enough that a good number of players had this rare weapon, but few enough that it still possessed some value.

I do think that there should be something for the truly talented players of GW to test their mettle. Perhaps another update down the line that adds a single zone to the Domain of Anguish. An update of this size caters to a very select group of players, whereas a disproportionate amount of the playerbase experiences disappointment. I think we can all agree that we'd all like to have fun, to somehow enjoy this update.

geminisaga · Dec 02, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

do u need to finish all 4 quest in order to advance or u just need the gems?

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

@Feurin Longcastle
A good point.
The question though is, how much is enough then? We have the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld, an elite area dedicated to the not so good players. Everyone can cut it there while still being challenged. Next are the Factions Elite Missions, they took a bit of time to get used to but could be done by the slightly better players.

So up until the latest update we have a whole PVE Part of the game which is catered to low-medium skilled players. 4 Elite Areas which cater to the slightly better player and now we have the Domain of Anguish which actually requires better than average players.

sindex · Dec 02, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminisaga

do u need to finish all 4 quest in order to advance or u just need the gems?

Yes, to get some of the other rewards.

Bocjo Bassannn · Dec 02, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I too dont mind the challange of beating this sadistic elite mission.... My beef is why is the new rit hero is hidden behind all of this... Storyline? Surely there is a way to make this hero useable before you beat the game otherwise what is the point..... YAY I have a rit hero..... boo I have no missions quests or use for it realy anymore. Pve unlock 6k balth faction.... pve unlock weeks of planing building buying skills looking for group to do qeusts getting your ass kicked repeatedly rethinking of a new build trying it again then most will just give up....... Somehow I think the pve'ers that will actully use this rit hero got the short end of the stick here. Move the rit hero to a masters quest somewhere in the relm that to me makes perfect sense.. Yes make it difficult but make it something the casual non elite player stands a chance of realy getting. The pvp'ers realy dont need or want a rit hero based on how few rit's you even see playing in hall of hero's anymore yet they can aquire one with just a few hrs of pvp faction earning... The pve'ers want a rit hero because its kewl and your collection of hero's is not compleate without it.. Yes the elite area is difficult but it is a ELITE area it should be difficult I can even live with the you need this character class and certain skill combo to beat it.... But to hide this much wanted hero behind all of this which I dare say MOST players will try and give up on is just simply lame... After all what If I wanted to goof around with a rit wepon spell spamer to support my assasin... lets think chances of my assasin being usuable for the "popular builds" for each elite area in this quest... slim and none and I suspect by the time these builds come to light several classes will have the same issues.

So want a rit hero for all your characters on your account.... chances are as it is now its just not gonna happen.

BTW I absolutely love the new elite area.... I just think its too damn hard just to get a single hero..... A hero that casual players want too.

sindex · Dec 02, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Why, it could be worse? You people honestly either we work together or you give up. I’ve seen people doge bullets for god sakes (no not the Matrix); we all know we are smarter then any other computer control A.I. However I will end this with a Matrix quote “there is no spoon.”

geminisaga · Dec 02, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

do u need to finish all 4 quest in order to advance or u just need the gems?

MelechRic · Dec 02, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Right now I'm going to side with the people who want DoA left alone. It's too early to tell anything about it. I was in a good PuG this morning and we cleared the Torc'qua city area. Yes we had a lot of deaths and some setbacks, but we did it. In fact we finished it with only 6 people (after losing one of our monks and our only nuker).

It's not impossible... it's just unlikely that you'll be successful unless you take your time and have a plan. Every time we went to take out a mob we had escape routes planned if the mob broke aggro from the tank and came for us. That kind of thinking pays dividends. However, it's rare in PvE because people get used to using the same build to roll through every part of the game.

DoA forces you to rethink your build (repeatedly). It's certainly a form of GW Darwinism and I appreciate that.

AlienFromBeyond · Dec 02, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

This is really frustrating because every caster I've been with doesn't understand aggro.

Foot Loose · Dec 02, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminisaga

do u need to finish all 4 quest in order to advance or u just need the gems?

1. If you want to get Razah - the Ritualist hero - you need to get one of each gem

2. If you want to get to Mallyx and the final part of the elite mission, you need to kill the four bosses, most, if not all, of whom can only be reached by completing the 4 quests (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

Nine Soul · Dec 02, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

You need to finish the quests, now stop double posting.

Maxiemonster · Dec 02, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

There is the little mistake.

Yep, it was even a quite obvious one... Oh well, everyone makes them every once in a while

Oh, and the Domain of Anguish is broken. I'm not talking about difficiculty (I guess we're over the fact that the difficulty is just fine), I'm talking about reward. After you get Razah, you can only do quests that give you jack (unless you want to farm this place for at hundred hours for a tormented item). You'll never be able to farm this quick enough to make it worthwhile.

Screw the Domain of Anguish, I give up.

Illusion Thunder · Dec 02, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

This is really frustrating because every caster I've been with doesn't understand aggro.

Isn't that the way of the world.

The Great Al · Dec 02, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

i wouldnt care how hard it was if it was fun...but simply put, it's really not fun. the environments are recycled, and there's really nothing imaginitive or ingenuitive about it.

scyfer · Dec 02, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feurin Longcastle

It's evident that there is a divide in opinion as to whether the difficulty should be toned down. Those that can do it wish for it to stay as it is, and those that can't wish for it to be changed.

So who should Anet cater to?

I can't do the area but I don't want it changed. It's way too early to think about that; it's not clear whether it needs changing, and plenty of better players exist (than me) and they've been clammoring for a PvE challenge.

Marvel M · Dec 02, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

IMO: The way to make this a Win Win situation is..

Allow easy access to RT Hero - I believe a large percentage of people are here just to get RT hero. Casual players are happy. Hence take it out of DOA and move him somewhere else. Someone else stated that the fun of Heroes is training them up and gaming with them while you go thru missions. Having the RT at the very end sort of defeats that. Still everyone wants him just to have as an option.

For the more Hardcore players: Leave the area as is - allow it to be a real challenge. It's a good money sink this way. The Hardcore players get more unique items to sell or use and the standard bragging rights..

Now I play more than the casual player but for me the weapons/armor etc serves me no purpose. I just want my RT hero. The problem I have is that I went thru Nightfall completely with Henchies and Heroes and was surprized that I could no longer use Henchies. Now I'm forced to group. Makes it unappealing for me to go after RT hero. Outside of that - Farming chests are very easy.

Take Care...